If I Didn't Know Any Better Id Think You Didnt Wanna Talk

• #iii

Sorry, Bluegaze, I tend to disagree.

Both sentences are grammatically correct. The tense of the that-clause depends on the tense the speaker is referring to (and that is disconnected from the provisional, i.e. no tense congruence is necessary):

If I didn't know any amend, I'd say (that) you are having fun [right now].
If I didn't know whatsoever ameliorate, I'd say (that) you were having fun [terminal night].

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There'due south one past subjunctive scenario I could think of:
If I didn't know any better, information technology would seem as if you were having fun [right at present].

Concluding edited: Jul 13, 2016

• #4

It certainly refers to the present in this instance, but I'm non sure how to explicate it. Let's change to the 3rd person, then we can more than conspicuously hear the difference betwixt verb forms. Let'due south say we're watching someone, and tin can't clearly see what they're doing.

A: What's she doing?
B: I recollect she's playing chess.
B: I'd say she's playing chess. [that'southward my judgement on the evidence: note that by tense would does not cause automatic backshift]
B: I'd say she was playing chess. [she seems to be, but I'thousand less sure nearly it: past tense was is allowed for describing the present]
B: If I didn't know better I'd say she was playing chess.
B: If I didn't know better I'd say she'southward playing chess. [incompatible with the more than confident present tense]

So information technology seems to be a situation where the past tense is used to point greater uncertainty well-nigh the nowadays (or future). Notation as well the by class, if used, has to be 'was'. It doesn't call for a subjunctive clause:

B: If I didn't know amend I'd say she were playing chess.

• #5

Oddly enough, I tend to agree -- even though I can't make any logical sense of it, except for the last 2 statements. I think I've never

consciously

encountered these forms, and still, I'd be inclined to say the same affair.

Nevertheless, I claim that my argument from above does work in 2nd person:
If I didn't know any amend, I'd say (that) you are having fun [correct now].
-> I know that you are having fun and the conditional "If I didn't know whatsoever better, I'd say..." is simply a teasing figure of oral communication

If I didn't know any better, I'd say (that) you were having fun [last night/right now].
-> this conspicuously works if the by reference is intended, but I can as well see 'you were' can act as a pseudo-subjunctive for the nowadays tense. (I still don't have a logical explanation, just a feeling)

----------------------------
Since I was curious I did some more than searching this morning.
I googled "know any ameliorate, I'd say you" and skimmed through the upshot pages and then I did the same with ngram to assess published literature.
In short, the results are all over the place:

- many results with present tense
- many results with legitimate past tense expressing the past
- also many results with past tense expressing the nowadays; I have a feeling this is very oft used in 2nd person, when the clause could come across as offensive, accusing or insulting, e.g. ...I'd say you were spying on me / you were jealous / y'all were aiming at my job / etc.
When the final clause appears more than factual and positive, in that location'south a tendency to use nowadays tense.
- at that place were also quite some results with past subjunctive 'were' in 3rd person, but clearly less frequent than present and past

Last edited: Jul xiv, 2016

Cagey

mail mod (English Only / Latin)

• #12

I would follow, if I didn't know better, with a by tense.

If I didn't know better, I'd say he was a thief.
If I didn't know improve, I'd say he was advocating defiance.
If I didn't know better, I'd say he was following/watching me.​

I believe that is what entangledbank is saying, as well.

(Notation: I wouldn't use 'any' in this construction.)

Terminal edited: Jul 24, 2016

• #14

It's probably to practice with tense agreement - the rest of the judgement uses past tenses. But native speakers just acquire what to use, not why it is like that.

• #16

I can't comment on why manfy thinks that - I completely disagree with that post.

• #eighteen

I am in no way trying to impose rules, nor am I saying that the present tense is never correct in structures like this 1. What I am saying is that I would expect "were" in the original sentence and not "are". I would call "are" incorrect from the perspective that I am giving advice to a non-native speaker, to adopt a blueprint which is universally or about universally used by native speakers, as opposed to using a blueprint which is rarely, if ever, seen, regardless of its logical merits. I could say the same thing about the contraction "there're" : in that location is no grammatical or logical reason why it tin't exist used, but native speakers simply don't, and I would therefore tell non-native learners that information technology is incorrect, and then that they don't adopt habits which are likely to be seen as errors, even if the same usages by a native speaker would be tolerated as an idiosyncrasy.

Cagey

post modern (English Simply / Latin)

• #23

Because for me it isn't part of the idiom. I use "didn't know any ameliorate" when the indicate is the lack of cognition -- when the person is too young or hasn't been taught something.

See the give-and-take: he doesn't know any better
Further comments and questions can be added there.

parksfalk1993.blogspot.com

Source: https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/if-i-didnt-know-better-id-say-you-are-were-having-fun.3203965/

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